Culture Universal Worldwide Introduction Interview Vol. 4 - Shing02 (Japan)

Questions & Interview by : Jesse Viinikainen
Photographer : Helen Kaur
© Culture Universal

SHING02 Official Site / Myspace

Jesse : Please introduce yourself to everybody around the world and tell them a bit about what you do.

Shing02 : Shing02 : My name is Shing02, I'm an emcee and I also produce. I work with live musicians and DJs, and I also play an instrument called the Faderboard in a jazz trio called Kosmic Renaissance, which I've been working on for the past few years touring in Japan and also the United States. Other than that, I'm working on studio projects producing for people like P.E.A.C.E from the Freestyle Fellowship, and working on my own solo projects as well.

Jesse : Let's go back in time before you became an artist. How was the first encounter with hiphop like for you? How did you discover the whole culture?

Shing02 : It wasn't until late in my teens that I discovered hiphop as a culture. Or rather I lived in a place where hiphop had a real scene. I grew up in England when breakdancing was a big boom but I wasn't introduced to hiphop as a culture until I went to Berkeley in 1993. Up until then I was just a casual listener, a hiphop fan basically in high school, listening to the radio and following what's going on.

Jesse : What was it to you about hiphop that made it so special in the beginning, like different from other types of music?

Shing02 : Definitely the independent aspect, the very do-it-yourself ethics of creating your own artwork, magazines, whatever it may be. I just love that everybody chips in their own unique talent and it may not necessarily be for a product, but everyone just doing what they love to do. And that's how I was taught, and I was very fortunate that there were a lot of original people in California and they really respected the elements, the cultural and the educational part. Where I lived in Oakland, a lot of people are still very politically motivated. Because our parents went through the civil rights movement and everything comes natural to our generation in the Bay. When I moved to Berkeley in '93, that was when Hieroglyphics were making a big impact in hiphop and it was really exciting to see that happen in front of your eyes, local people making it big. You saw a lot of heads freestyling on the street, selling cassettes and all kinds of things going on. Now that I look back on it, it was a very special time during '93 till '95 or '96 where everyone from Living legends, Hobo Junction, Hiero... they were actually on the street doing things and you would bump into them every single day. Now you don't really see that where it all happened.

Jesse : Do you have any people that you look up to, people who inspired you back then who inspired you to write lyrics, do music?

Shing02 : Back then besides listening to records, the people that nurtured me personally was Del (The Funky Homosapien), and of course Mystik Journeymen, and Bas One who really helped work on my craft. And eventually I started hooking up with people my age, some from my school, and then I met Japanese DJs and it kinda spread like that. But I started out drawing, that's how I met Del. I gave him a drawing of him and then he asked me to translate some instructions for video games and that's how we became good friends.

Jesse : Do you still remember the first album you ever bought, or some of the first?

Shing02 : No I don't recall, I know it's a very generic question but it must be sometime in high school.

Jesse : How did it happen for you and when did it happen for you that you decided to make it professionally like look for a record deal, make your own labels and stuff like that?

Shing02 : There really is no one moment, that's something that I still work on every day, and I really mean that. Cuz it really is tough for everybody to survive, making music and pay rent, some are fortunate enough that they don't have to make money to make ends meet but most of us do. A lot of artists in the Bay Area, they actually have second jobs to support their music and there's nothing wrong with that,sometimes it makes them a better musician. I'm just fortunate to be able to work with people and tour and stuff like that, but it's still difficult.

Jesse : Before you started emceeing did you ever think about doing any of the other elements, did you ever think maybe I want to be a graffiti artist or DJ?

Shing02 : Yeah I always had interest in everything, definitely. I guess not just emceeing but when I started making my own stuff, being a student of music was a very big task. Just to be able to create something new, just to create a whole end product all by itself, you really have to learn the music, not just rap. Eventually that kind of took over my interests; you would make the beat, do the recording, next do the cover art, do the layout and go to print, everything was fun and it still is. But I definitely got more focused on the recording. But I still like to draw and I still go to b-boy practice every now and then.

Jesse : Do you do capoeira by the way?

Shing02 : Yeah a little bit but you know, music & capoeira, not full time. I trained for about 2 years a long time ago but now I haven't be able to do it.

Jesse : Same for me I did capoeira for 2 years. What were you doing before you started getting into hip-hop, what were you thinking of going to be when you grow up before hip-hop? Something that you think you might be doing now if it wasn't for hip-hop ?

Shing02 : That's really tough to say. I like drawing and stuff, and I took engineering in college. When I was in college I would work day jobs to make money, doing translations and technical stuff. But I was never sure what I would be. Even now, I'm still figuring out what it really means to be a musician. It's a very deep thing, you know. You can take it as deep as you want! Some things start very small but when you open up the opportunities, things really do get bigger than you expect. I was reading the book "Can't Stop Won't Stop", it's a history of hiphop and politics, and I read about how Public Enemy got started. They weren't an army from the start, at first they were just guys that got together and they came up with the logo, but eventually they became exactly what it represents. They actually became super politically charged. The same with M.I.A. when you start talking about certain themes, people respond to it, and sooner or later you're gonna have to step up, become, be what you talk about. I'm still figuring out how that process works. So in other words, your profession is what you make of it, what you decide. Even if you just rap, that's a very broad term, what you rap about is definitely more important than just being a rapper.

Jesse : What's the story behind the 02 in your name?

Jesse : So you've always had the name from the beginning, you never had any other names when you were starting out?

Shing02 : No, I never really thought about it. I started with the name Vector Omega that's my production name. That's really about it.

Jesse : Do you have any special memories from around the first time you had to do a live show? How was it like thinking about it now?

Shing02 : Looking back and to some extent to this day, I definitely was not a natural performer, I was more of an artist than an entertainer so I was really nervous. Now I'm getting the hang of it, just to really pour everything you have out to the audience, no matter who it is, where it is, or how old they are. Definitely, when I first started I was very nervous just to get up there.

Jesse : How would you describe your music to those people who haven't heard anything yet in your own words?

Shing02 : It's really up to the person who listens to it. Sometimes it depends if the person has knowledge of what I'm saying in Japanese or English. My style really changes depending on the song, I try to listen to the beat and do whatever that fits the beat whether it's my project or somebody else's. Nowadays, I'm getting more into working with live sounds so no sampling for me right now. I'm doing a lot more arranging and trying to really compose. I definitely listen to a lot more dub music, and jazz music right now, looking for inspiration.

Jesse : Out of all the tracks you done do you have any tracks that have very special meaning to you, thats something like a personal favorite for you?

Shing02 : I don't know, it changes from time to time for me. Sometimes I might forget about a song and listen back to it and then I kind of surprise myself. Some songs you get kind of tired of it, but when you do it live and people like it, you get a fresh start. Like that Luv(sic) song, I've done three versions of it and people really like to listen to them live. Sometimes I may not feel like doing it, but when the beat comes on it's like right back to when I first did it. It's really like an emotional response. For my sake, I always need to be making new songs, I never want to be stuck doing old songs just for the crowd but you gotta keep the balance. Cuz I have the same experience being an audience, if I go see famous artists and I know their songs, I do want to hear the songs that I like and I want to hear new stuff too, so you gotta do both.

Jesse : How is hip-hop like a lifestyle for you? How would you say it affects your everyday life?

Shing02 : I think hiphop as far as the culture part of it, it's really taught me to break down whatever you take in and really try to understand the history of things, how things evolve, how you need to work on your own craft in order to contribute to whatever you're participating in. I think the whole spirit elevates you, to give back to the culture what you've learned, and I try to apply my knowledge growing up, I try to turn my experience into something different. I think that's really important, to try to make an effort to do something new, not just emulate others.

Jesse : When you're writing or producing tracks, what inspires you to do it even when you're feeling down or times are not so good? Where do you draw inspirtaion from?

Shing02 : It comes from just the whole struggle of everyday life, really. That's as real as it gets for me, but you have to turn it into a positive expression even if you have negative feelings, that's really important too. That's why music is beautiful! You can be talking about something crazy or really negative, but you can still make it sound good. It's not just you complaining on a record, you can make a really good song. If anything, hiphop started out that way...

Jesse : What would you say are some key elements to the music that you want to maintain until one day you cant make music anymore? Something that you will never agree to change about your music?

Shing02 : First and foremost, the musical part has to be good. I definitely want to make a track that I would like to listen to with or without the vocals. Once that's established, I would write to the beat that will enhance the feeling inside the music. That in itself is a lot of work, it's almost like writing a book to me. Of course I can freestyle over some club beat, that's fine too, but as far as trying to put it down on record for people to listen to, it takes a lot of time. It's almost like making a film, cuz you could really spend that much time on it if you want to! You know, try to get the original sounds and especially the engineering part takes hours. It takes a whole lifetime to be a good engineer to learn about electricity, cables, recording techniques, microphones, all that. But I definitely got interested more into that technical aspect. so everything comes into play. The reason I don't sample anymore, it's not because I hate sampling. Once you start thinking about it, samples that sound good, it's not just the musician's job, it's the studio engineer's work, everything from the microphone to the cable that they use, that's what's so special about the sound. If you really get into the music, you would naturally be more interested in trying to recreating it yourself than just borrowing it. So that's what I'm on.

Jesse : Do you have any dream projects or collboations that you would like to do?

Shing02 : Not really right now, I'm just finishing my own album. I did finish two tracks with DJ Krush last couple of months. That's for a benefit project for Africa that his management is doing. That was a real dream come true for me right there! Even though I had known him for a while, it took a while for us to work together. I really, really respect him as a musician and a DJ. Other than that, just creating my own album.

Jesse : Throughout your career have you had any funny experiences that have happened to you on tour or done by some fan or things like that?

Shing02 : Sure. A lot of episodes along the way. What kind of stories do you want to hear? (laughter)

Jesse : Funny?

Shing02 : Funny? Does it have to be funny? (laughter)

Jesse : Or crazy. Something that would be interseting to read?

Shing02 : Well, I guess the time I performed in Bosnia in 2000. That was a really different experience. Most of the city, especially this place Mostar that I went to was still in rubbles, bullet holes everywhere. Frightening. But the night we did the show, afterwards people told us that the city was still divided in two, different ethnic backgrounds, but that night a lot of people were mixed together and people were happy just to come to that show. So that was almost like a Wildstyle moment, it really was for them. Just to listen to kids my age that were in the war just a few years back, killing people and just coming out of that, a lot of kids wanted to speak to you to tell you about it. Stuff like that made me realize a lot. That was deep.

Jesse : Well since we're in Japan, what do you think are some of the serious problems in Japanese society right now that maybe someone should rap about, someone should tell people about it?

Shing02 : Japanese society...? There's definitely good things, and bad things about certain customs that people really need to change. The way people communicate, and the way people create work for each other. Sometimes people do it out of practice not really thinking about how it's going to help people. We need to start talking and thinking about the essence of work, not just to get each other fame, you know what I mean? Everything is too commercialized. So in that aspect I think America and Japan are very similar because of the capitalistic pressures and expectations. From what I hear and from talking to people, seems like everyone is struggling in Japan. It's supposed to be a rich country but everyone is struggling, like why is that?

Jesse : A lot of depression everywhere.

Shing02 : Yeah not just economically depressed, some people are mentally depressed too (laughter). That's crazy, it really shouldn't have to be like that. A lot of young kids that come to me after listening to my music, they have a lot of issues. You just have to get a lot tougher to survive, that's for sure. That's what I try to express with my music, too. Trying to figure out a different angle to analyze the situation, and not just accept everything you see in the media. As critical as I am, that's after listening to a lot of hiphop and living in the Bay area for 15 years, and now I'm able to understand certain things, but if you're in one place reading the papers and watching TV, and your parents are reading the papers and watching TV and they believe everything they see, it's really hard to break out of that. You're literally brainwashed by the official media, it's not worth mentioning it's false. Or completely false. But it's really not like that, young people are starting to figure out "oh ok, just because it's not in the news, it doesn't mean it's not true". That's true with anything. All the information you get about food or music...

Helen : Yea you don't need to believe everything.

Shing02 : You definitely don't. I think now more so than 10 years ago, there's more validity to that way of thinking. Before when you would say shouldn't believe everything you see on TV, it was more of an extreme attitude. But now young kids, they already know that. You can just google it and find 5,000 other kids talking about it. That's a big difference now. Before if you would say it's not really true what's on the news, everyone will be like "yeah right you think you're smart" (laughter).

Jesse : People need to start forming their own opinion.

Shing02 : Exactly. That's so important. Now at least you have two options. You have the mainstream opinion, and the alternative opinion. And you can decide for yourself. At least we have an option!

Jesse : There's also a lot of people now that just take a line from internet or tv or something and then they spread the line around like its their opinion but actually they just heard about it..

Shing02 : Exactly. So, there's people only stuck on this side, and there's people stuck on the alternative side too. Never trust only the mainstream information. You just need to have a balance.

Jesse : It's like with hip-hop now, people say lyrics are the most important thing in hip-hop but then they listen to G-Unit or Nelly or something like that, it's like, who are you kidding?

Shing02 : Even music too, you can't just criticize party music just because it's not "intelligent". There's always gotta be a balance. Party music and political or conscious music. It doesn't have to be one or the other.

Jesse : It's all music after all, it's up to you if you think its bad or good.

Shing02 : It's definitely all relative.

Jesse : If you could teach something to the kids out there something about hip-hop music or hip-hop culture that people don't normally realize, what would you tell them?

Shing02 : It really depends on how you define "hiphop" because it means so many different things right now, but as far as the hiphop spirit, how it started, from the Bronx and stuff like that, you really have to respect what it means to have a hiphop community. It's not really about individual success or competition and commercialism, but now it's the complete opposite of how hiphop started. I guess people are ok with it, i think it's crazy.

Jesse : Nobody knows who the originators are anymore. People just think its rap music, they have no knowledge of the other things like you look at the bboys now dancing to techno music..

Shing02 : I don't want to criticize the people out there who don't necessarily take the time to study, that's their choice. But there really comes a time when you have to understand the source cuz hiphop was born out of other forms of music too. Hiphop didn't necessarily invent itself.

Jesse : Funk and soul..

Shing02 : Definitely, hiphop is like 30 years old, always changing. It's just a phase. Everything is a phase.

Jesse : Hiphop is probably the one genre that has evolved the most since the beginning, all the different types of sounds. For a lot of people its very difficult to say anymore what is hiphop cuz there's all the hiphop bands with emcees and jazz bands with emcees... What about the hiphop industry now, what are some of the problems you had to face?

Shing02 : To be honest, I haven't really spent much time dealing with the industry so I really have no comment on that (laughter).

Jesse : How about the music in general, what do you think are some of the problems that people should try to change?

Shing02 : Generally speaking, I do feel that whatever craft or instrument, musicians should have more ways to make a living than how it's set up right now. Everything is too commercialized, for sure

Jesse : Are there not enough options for musicians to get heard?

Shing02 : It's really tough to say at this point in time, but major labels are definitely bracing themselves for the worst right now, people aren't buying as many CDs as before and it's really hard for them to maintain their overhead. Before it was like a monopoly, but now people are finding creative ways to make their own music and distribute them. So the game is definitely changing. I really do feel that, for example in Japan, I know a lot of really, really good musicians that aren't hooked up with the right people and it's hard for them to make a living. I know good bands that already got a CD out and it's really good, but somehow it's hard for them to keep their business going and make music at the same time, cuz all the big labels have too much power with the retail shops, they have the resources to pay for everything. Plus it's too information-based like magazines, people are literally buying space just to spread information. When you get caught up in that race, independent people waste too much time thinking about "how can I get my info out there", rather than concentrating on their music. It's very unfortunate to see that happen. If you make something very, very special there might be ways for it to blow up if you took it overseas for example, there's definitely other ways than trying to climb the ladder that someone already set up, and there's people already waiting just to get ahead. You can go somewhere else and start your own thing, but right now everything is too centralized. And you can say the same thing about the U.S. too. All the media in New York and magazines and this and that, just got too much power.

Jesse : How about the Japanese hip-hop scene, what do you think about nowadays in general?

Shing02 : I really have no idea (laughter). I'm so away from it and the people I deal with here, some are emcees and producers, but these are individual musicians that I work with. I really don't see myself as part of the Japanese hiphop scene.

Jesse : Do you see any major differences in Japanese hip-hop compared to American hip-hop, lyrics wise, production wise.

Shing02 : Sure, big difference.

Jesse : What would you say are some of the differences.

Shing02 : This isn't just about hiphop, the depth of characters in general. Just based on variety, you got a lot more crazier people out in the U.S. A lot more unique people out there, not just talent-wise. There's a lot more going around in America, I think. Kids are exposed to a lot more things at a younger age, they go through a hell of a lot more than kids that are brought up here, so I do think there's a difference. It's almost like major league baseball and japanese baseball. It's different, you know.

Jesse : Like a passion thing.

Shing02 : It's more like NBA and japanese basketball, i think it's that much different. (laughter)

Jesse : That's very different.

Shing02 : Cuz you can't beat the NBA, you got superstars from all around the world. And of course if somebody from Japan was really dope, he / she would make it in the U.S. too.That's how I feel about DJ Krush and few other people, even Afra. If he went to the U.S. he can rock the house any day, and that's real talent. He doesn't need to worry about where he's from.

Jesse : I'm curious since we are going everywhere in the world supporting artists from different countries, who are you listening to outside of Japan and America

Shing02 : Hip-hop wise?

Jesse : Yea hip-hop wise right now.

Shing02 : I really don't have any in my collection, but some people gave me hiphop music from Mongolia, I've seen a documentary on Mongolian hiphop, it's really good. One of my friends Jasko from Bosnia, he was schooling me a lot about how kids in Eastern European countries are using hiphop to talk about their civil war, really crazy stuff. Same with Brazilian music, and Cuban hiphop. I'd say although I just mentioned that America is the elite in sports, now there's definitely a lot more interesting stuff going on outside of America. As far as the youth, I think it's really starting to show.

Jesse : Talking about other countries in Asia, what do you think that other countries around here need to do to build such a strong scene like Japan has done in the past 20 years?

Shing02 : For the most part, Japan is still very much influenced by New York and MTV-style hiphop, I'd say. But it's just that there's a lot of population in Japan so naturally there's a big underground scene as well. I would like to go to visit other Asian countries. China has lots of population (laughter). I heard they have problems with freedom of speech over there, crazy man. You can get jailed if you say the wrong thing. You can say whatever you want on the under I heard, but if you get to a certain level then it's dangerous.

Jesse : What would you like to see in hip-hop in a few years, lets say in 2010. what would you like to see happen in hip-hop culture or music wise?

Shing02 : Kind of what I've been saying the whole time, I would definitely like the music to be richer in texture, not just digitized simple beats. I would like the music to be better for listening purposes. Right now things are way too simple.

Jesse : People are not using the whole potential of hip-hop.

Shing02 : Yeah, or music. If you have powerful music with powerful words, you can make good stuff. It's geared too much towards the club scene and the radio, and they're not really interested in getting out good songs. The format is so generic. I would like the format to be diversified.

Jesse : What would be your advice to all the future emcees and producers?

Shing02 : I would say that it's always a good thing to have diversity, keep your mind open so you don't get stuck with one thing. Don't be afraid to change, and always take time to study the right things. Once you get to a certain level, you have to do things hands-on, not do everything automated. You can apply that to so many different things that you never thought you would be able to do. I would say in the hiphop context, don't worry about what hiphop means. As long as you continue with the spirit, it really doesn't matter what style you do. Just be diverse. Making music is a lot like cooking, it's all about picking the right ingredients and knowing how to cook them, how to serve them on the dish nicely, it's all about presentation and how much love you put into it, and who you share it with. Just do it with your own style. So start cooking! (laughter) Don't just eat processed microwave food and fast food.. grow your own. That's my recommendation.

Jesse : Tell everybody more about what you're doing with Empire22? What are the projects you guys are doing?

Shing02 : I would say that it's always a good thing to have diversity, keep your mind open so you don't get stuck with one thing. Don't be afraid to change, and always take time to study the right things. Once you get to a certain level, you have to do things hands-on, not do everything automated. You can apply that to so many different things that you never thought you would be able to do. I would say in the hiphop context, don't worry about what hiphop means. As long as you continue with the spirit, it really doesn't matter what style you do. Just be diverse. Making music is a lot like cooking, it's all about picking the right ingredients and knowing how to cook them, how to serve them on the dish nicely, it's all about presentation and how much love you put into it, and who you share it with. Just do it with your own style. So start cooking! (laughter) Don't just eat processed microwave food and fast food.. grow your own. That's my recommendation.

Jesse : Have you completed the Y Songs LP already?

Shing02 : No

Jesse : That's why it was delayed?

Shing02 : The truth of the matter is, it was never set for a release date even though the album title was out. I never told anyone that it was gonna be out, except last summer I said that people are going to be able to start hearing tracks online. I already put out 4 songs online, but it's definitely still a work in progress.

Jesse : What can people be expecting from it?

Shing02 : Definitely a lot better arrangement, live instrumentation... more dub influenced tracks. Lyrics that really match the song. We'll see... it's still being made so I can't give a complete analysis.

Jesse : How has it been like for you as a Japanese artist in America, how has the reaction from the media and people. have you gotten any stereotypes from the people and all that?

Shing02 : Not particularly. Especially where I live, they're very open to diverse backgrounds. Like DJ Q-Bert is Filipino... and if anything people know that I work in Japan as well, not just living there. So it's cool.

Jesse: Since you had the chance to go over the world do you have anything planned with any emcees or artists from outside Japan and US that you would like to work with?

Shing02 : I don't have any particular plans as of yet, I haven't been anywhere near traveling around the world, I would like to go everywhere eventually, I would like to see a lot more than just going back and forth, Europe, US and Japan.

Jesse: You're doing the tour with M.I.A. now, how did you meet up with her, how did you 2 hook up?

Shing02 : It wasn't with her personally, I kind of knew her through a friend so now we're cool on that level, but that just happened through a promoter in Japan. I was very fortunate for that.

Jesse: Do you have any things that have happened in your career that you would call as highlights of your career? What are the things you would consider that are the nicest things?

Shing02 : Uh shoot.. again I don't want to sound generic but a lot of small things. I'm 30 years old now I've been doing it more than 10 years, and I'm really amazed at how many younger kids support what I do. To the extent where they listen to my album a whole lot more than I do. And I hear a lot of episodes... It's wild man. Some people have shared my music with parents they lost, and some kid who was really into my music actually committed suicide. Extreme drama happens man, people tell me, like your creation is part of some kid's drama. That's something you never expect, it can really shock you... every now and then. So what I want to say is that I really take it seriously. I enjoy every bit of it, but I do take it seriously. That's just my style, I can be funny if I want to... that's already funny in itself, to say that. It's serious stuff, and if people don't see the comedy in that.. no matter how serious the subject is you really have to keep the distance from you and your work. I try to keep that perspective cuz there's enough serious issues out there that people need to talk about. Since I don't take myself that seriously, I don't really mind what people think about me. At the end of the day, those issues are still on the table, no matter what I do or say.

Jesse: What are some of the stupidest or craziest things that people have asked you in an interview?

Shing02 : Well, since most people know that I'm very serious, I don't really get that many dumb questions (laughter).

Jesse: Time for shameless advertising, please share with everyone all the future plans you have right now?

Shing02 : As mentioned, I need to finish my studio album, and over the years I'm still gonna keep doing the live jazz thing playing synthesizers and cutting it up with a mixer, a whole new style. The Faderboard too. Kinda spread the fader music, bring that into the live situation. Keep progressing with the whole production part. Definitely for a few years, I feel I was stuck creatively, but now I'm back on track... it takes time.

Jesse: Say something to all the people who after reading this interview are going to listen to your music.

Shing02 : Are you really going to dictate everything today? It's a pretty long interview (laughter).

Helen: Yeah.